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Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Current and former members of law enforcement who support drug regulation rather than prohibition.
Aug 1, 2007 3:57 PM
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
These guys are a joke. If you want regulation, you are going to have to get it from the federal level, not some opinions from former municipal cops.
Even Amsterdam is making drugs illegal. If you read up, it is illegal but tolorated to smoke bud there. And in recent news, they are really cracking down on it and the magic mushrooms in the city.
Good luck. But it ain't gunna happen.
Even Amsterdam is making drugs illegal. If you read up, it is illegal but tolorated to smoke bud there. And in recent news, they are really cracking down on it and the magic mushrooms in the city.
Good luck. But it ain't gunna happen.
By: ejayerik
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
First of all Amsterdam is not doing anything, if something would change in the dutch drug policy it would be done by the dutch goverment wich is in the Hague.
Second, they're not cracking down on MJ or shrooms any more than they used to, wich is not a lot.
Second, they're not cracking down on MJ or shrooms any more than they used to, wich is not a lot.
By: SilenTom
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1650873,00.html
I keep an eye on these things.
I keep an eye on these things.
By: ejayerik
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Here is some reading for you regarding Dutch drug laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands
By: ejayerik
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
regardless of where the regulation comes from, having public officials speaking on behalf of regulation efforts does give credence to the philosophy of legalization. If it weren't for the Bush administration sending it's goon squad to Nevada we may have been able to pass our legalization effort in '06
By: sincitynewbie
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Legalizing drugs doesnt solve the problems associated with them, it simply exchanges one set of problems for another.
By: Lvalue
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Actually no, they aren't making it illegal. It has always been illegal, just ignored. And no, change can't start at the federal level either really. Experiments and tolerance maybe, but not real change. Look higher, UN international narcotics conventions that bind all UN nations. That's where change starts, and that's why it's tolerated rather than legal. That's a step they aren't allowed to take on their own.
Some work though is already started, the Swiss have been working on a program of heroin maintenance which I described a bit in a thread I linked farther down in this thread. In order to even start that program though they had to get approval from the UN for it as an experiment rather than a change in policy. They started the process in 91, program started in 94.
What LEAP and others including myself suggest isn't free use, it's regulation and where it's been tested it seems to work out pretty well. Not in someone bright ideas or imagination, but in trial studies that have in some cases run for over a decade now. Swiss heroin program started in January 94 after three years or work with the UN to get it approved, still runs today.
Some work though is already started, the Swiss have been working on a program of heroin maintenance which I described a bit in a thread I linked farther down in this thread. In order to even start that program though they had to get approval from the UN for it as an experiment rather than a change in policy. They started the process in 91, program started in 94.
What LEAP and others including myself suggest isn't free use, it's regulation and where it's been tested it seems to work out pretty well. Not in someone bright ideas or imagination, but in trial studies that have in some cases run for over a decade now. Swiss heroin program started in January 94 after three years or work with the UN to get it approved, still runs today.
By: drattus
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
After looking at TIME your link I'll qualify one point. Drugs such as heroin, pot, and so on are controlled by UN conventions. There are others such as mushrooms or designer drugs which are more a choice issue and the UN has yet to become involved with.
The big ones which are the most responsible for death and damage such as cocaine and heroin, they are bound by international conventions which leave little room for nations to work around them. Given that in the US at least the death rates climbed several times over recent decades while prices fell it seems we need to work around at least some of them, this isn't working.
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-prices.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-purity.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/cdc/opiates-yr.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/cocaine-prices.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/cocaine-purity.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/cdc/cocaine-yr.htm
The reason some cops are interested isn't so they can see people high, it's so they can get in front of the damage and prevent it. Some still think that's what their job was supposed to be, to protect and serve rather than follow blindly and in spite of the damage.
The big ones which are the most responsible for death and damage such as cocaine and heroin, they are bound by international conventions which leave little room for nations to work around them. Given that in the US at least the death rates climbed several times over recent decades while prices fell it seems we need to work around at least some of them, this isn't working.
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-prices.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-purity.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/cdc/opiates-yr.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/cocaine-prices.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/cocaine-purity.htm
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/cdc/cocaine-yr.htm
The reason some cops are interested isn't so they can see people high, it's so they can get in front of the damage and prevent it. Some still think that's what their job was supposed to be, to protect and serve rather than follow blindly and in spite of the damage.
By: drattus
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
So youll have a nation that is addicted to drugs...youll have people walking around in addicted hazes, and the number of completely useless people in this society will sky rocket. Has anyone ever seen an addict? Regulating drugs, which will be done by large coporations if its legalized, is ridiculous. This is like the current war against smoking or drinking. If we say that this stuff is legal, then why not just say, this stuff must be GOOD for you. You can't split hairs and say, drugs that cause horrible addicting side effects are acceptable, when a state of addiction should be unacceptable behavior. Take a look at a crack baby and tell me thats acceptable.
I agree our current enforcement policies arent working, but isnt that better than no enforcement at all?
The question shouldnt be legalizing drugs but rather how we should change our policies to control drug trafficing more effectively.
I agree our current enforcement policies arent working, but isnt that better than no enforcement at all?
The question shouldnt be legalizing drugs but rather how we should change our policies to control drug trafficing more effectively.
By: Lvalue
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Do you honestly think people will be more likely to become addicted if drugs become legal? Seems to me if you have the inclination to do drugs, you're going to do them regardless of whether or not it is legal.
And concerning your argument that the government would be condoning drug use if made legal, well maybe it's just me, but i don't think the governent has any place in judging what is "acceptable" behavior in cases where no one else is harmed. Also, I'd like to believe that citizens aren't so stupid as to throw out all social expectations and norms about drugs use and start using them on a whim just because their government supposedly seems to be ok with them.
And concerning your argument that the government would be condoning drug use if made legal, well maybe it's just me, but i don't think the governent has any place in judging what is "acceptable" behavior in cases where no one else is harmed. Also, I'd like to believe that citizens aren't so stupid as to throw out all social expectations and norms about drugs use and start using them on a whim just because their government supposedly seems to be ok with them.
By: keleona
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
That would work. But the problem is that personal drug use does hurt others. Drain on state resources responding to all of the calls for service regarding the second hand effects of drug use like domestic abuse, overdoses, crimes in relation to addiction, ect. As well as the effects on the general public from drug dealers, cartells, and the violence involved in it's import and distribution.
Even if drug use was legal, one's personal use would effect others in many ways.
Even if drug use was legal, one's personal use would effect others in many ways.
By: ejayerik
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Great post, and consider the effect that legalizing drugs WOULDNT solve many of these problems.
By: Lvalue
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Seems to me if you have the inclination to do drugs, you're going to do them regardless of whether or not it is legal.
That is precisely the reason not to make them legal. We would essentially be compounding the problems all ready associated with the illegal status of drugs. Look at what happens with alcohol and tobacco addicts...all ready a myriad of problems. My point is to find solutions that work better than the current standard, but to not throw out the idea that some drugs ARE dangerous. Ive said this before...by legalizing drugs youre trading one set of problems for another.
but i don't think the governent has any place in judging what is "acceptable" behavior in cases where no one else is harmed
Thats an opinion and it depends on what u mean by "harmed". Some drugs may be relatively harmless, but I can tell you with certainty that others are down right dangerous. According to the people in this video ...we should legalize cocaine, heroine, crack, ...???
Now you sound like you trust people in our society to do the right thing when it comes to drug use. This is where ur not quite thinking clearly. The very question is, "Can people be trusted to use drugs in moderation?". Some can and some can't. And lets face it, addiction can be connected to many things not drug related. But look at what your giving them as options. Are these drugs not easily addicting?? Consider all the crap that occurs because of legalized substances. And then look at how addicting some of these drugs can be. Sure I take a small amout now, but there are tolerance levels to consider....so now I really need more to get the same effect...all that crap.
They even talk in this film about legalizing drugs to "feed addicts", like its acceptable to be a destructive addict (where u are clearly hurting yourself and others).
That is precisely the reason not to make them legal. We would essentially be compounding the problems all ready associated with the illegal status of drugs. Look at what happens with alcohol and tobacco addicts...all ready a myriad of problems. My point is to find solutions that work better than the current standard, but to not throw out the idea that some drugs ARE dangerous. Ive said this before...by legalizing drugs youre trading one set of problems for another.
but i don't think the governent has any place in judging what is "acceptable" behavior in cases where no one else is harmed
Thats an opinion and it depends on what u mean by "harmed". Some drugs may be relatively harmless, but I can tell you with certainty that others are down right dangerous. According to the people in this video ...we should legalize cocaine, heroine, crack, ...???
Now you sound like you trust people in our society to do the right thing when it comes to drug use. This is where ur not quite thinking clearly. The very question is, "Can people be trusted to use drugs in moderation?". Some can and some can't. And lets face it, addiction can be connected to many things not drug related. But look at what your giving them as options. Are these drugs not easily addicting?? Consider all the crap that occurs because of legalized substances. And then look at how addicting some of these drugs can be. Sure I take a small amout now, but there are tolerance levels to consider....so now I really need more to get the same effect...all that crap.
They even talk in this film about legalizing drugs to "feed addicts", like its acceptable to be a destructive addict (where u are clearly hurting yourself and others).
By: Lvalue
Re: Law Enforcement Against Drug Prohibition
Part of the problem is the term "legalize". People don't realize it but explosives are legal today, used in construction and such all the time. So are full automatic weapons if properly licensed, movie studios and collectors have them. So is morphine, and so are many other things we don't allow free use of. They need to hit the term legal less and regulated more I'd think.
Legal does NOT mean free use, it just means prison isn't automatic for use and some regulation of use can be allowed which should offer better control than we have through a street dealer. With some such as pot maybe it will be fairly free, with others more likely medical supervision and maintenance clinics, prescription only and current addicts only.
I've talked with a few from LEAP and we're more or less on the same page as far as goals and reasons, I posted this same video on another site and the debate there covered most of the concerns here fairly well. Take the time to read it if the link is allowed here, if there's any more questions after that I'll give it a shot. I'm not law enforcement which is part of why I don't work with them, but we do follow parallel paths and I've been doing this for a while now.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Cops-say-legalize-drugs-ask-them-why
Legal does NOT mean free use, it just means prison isn't automatic for use and some regulation of use can be allowed which should offer better control than we have through a street dealer. With some such as pot maybe it will be fairly free, with others more likely medical supervision and maintenance clinics, prescription only and current addicts only.
I've talked with a few from LEAP and we're more or less on the same page as far as goals and reasons, I posted this same video on another site and the debate there covered most of the concerns here fairly well. Take the time to read it if the link is allowed here, if there's any more questions after that I'll give it a shot. I'm not law enforcement which is part of why I don't work with them, but we do follow parallel paths and I've been doing this for a while now.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Cops-say-legalize-drugs-ask-them-why
By: drattus
