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The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Chuck Missler takes the misunderstanding of Evolution to a whole new level.
Mar 29, 2007 3:25 PM
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
And here was me thinking peanut butter was a simple food source and not a living, breathing organism.
You win again religion.
You win again religion.
By: RainbowTrout
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Mommy, religion never has to do it's homework. How come I alway have to?
By: jaxon
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Brilliant response! May I use that without royalties?
By: spam_vigilante
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Not that simple, especially if you have a nut allergy. Which is what this man needs.
By: Griff
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I think the point they were trying to make in this video, although they didn't do a good or scientific job of explaining it, was the idea that chemicals in and of themselves could produce life goes supports the idea of spontaneous generation, a scientific theory that has been thoroughly disproved. People used to believe, for example, that the reason you found maggots in rotten meat was that the chemicals in meat broke down to produce maggots. In other words something that was not alive, meat, produce something that was alive, maggots. Then through a simple experiment where meat was placed in a sealed jar that prevented flies from landing on it and laying their eggs, spontaneous generation was shown to be false. The same goes for all forms of life. If you could completely sterilize an environment, let's say a jar, so that no bacteria or any other form of life existed therein. Also, the jar was completely sealed so that no life could intrude into it. Now if we left that jar alone for a long time, whether it be 100 years or 100 billion years, we or whatever would be alive at that point were to test the inside of the jar for life there would be none. There are many scientists who do not believe that life originated on Earth by a combination of different chemicals getting struck by lightning, rather that microbes traveled to our planet on comets and so forth and evolved into the life we know today. It may seem outrageous that life could survive on a comet traveling through outer space, however, experiments conducted on rather hearty species of bacteria have shown that certain bacteria can survive similar conditions to outer space. Creationists have more in common with these scientists that those that promote the idea that a series of chemical reactions could lead to the formation of life in that both understand that life cannot arise from nonlife. Of course, this begs the question, if life came to Earth from another planet, how did that life originate. Scientists have been able to show that under the proper conditions that according to some theories could have existed on Earth billions of years ago, amino acids can form from other chemicals that are combined with electricity. Of course, amino acids are the building blocks of life not actual life. Some people use such experiments as evidence for the idea that life on earth was created in such a manner, but that would be the same as saying that because houses are made of bricks and bricks are made of clay, a pile of clay is the same thing as a house.
By: rickhatman
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Yes spontaneous generation is false. But even you need to do more homework. Life did not even begin as a cell it began as RNA (not DNA).
>All it takes is a molecule with the capacity to replicate itself, using surrounding matter.<
From there it would constantly replicate itself with the abundant amino acids that even you said were present 4 billion years ago.
Now concerning the cell (Phospholipid bilayer) there is a video somewhere on this site that shows that under the circumstances 4 billion years ago that they would form easily by themselvses. Literaly pressure cook the chemicals then just add water.
Since the Phospholipid bilayer has no other protiens yet to protect it, a string of RNA could have easliy gotten into one. (by now there are trillions of both)
Now here is one of the main concepts of evolution. The RNA does not always replicates itself perfectly. Most of the times the malfunctions are either insignificant or fatal and cause the strand to not replicate again but sometimes it produces something usefull, like a protein or an Enzyme. This is also how RNA changed over to DNA. (I'm not sure of the specifics on that). Now i could walk you through more steps, formation of the Nucleus, seperation of cells into aerobic and anaerobic (those able to tolerate the high amount of oxygen the cells are producing and those who are not) And even the formation of Multicellular structures, but that would take to long.
>All it takes is a molecule with the capacity to replicate itself, using surrounding matter.<
From there it would constantly replicate itself with the abundant amino acids that even you said were present 4 billion years ago.
Now concerning the cell (Phospholipid bilayer) there is a video somewhere on this site that shows that under the circumstances 4 billion years ago that they would form easily by themselvses. Literaly pressure cook the chemicals then just add water.
Since the Phospholipid bilayer has no other protiens yet to protect it, a string of RNA could have easliy gotten into one. (by now there are trillions of both)
Now here is one of the main concepts of evolution. The RNA does not always replicates itself perfectly. Most of the times the malfunctions are either insignificant or fatal and cause the strand to not replicate again but sometimes it produces something usefull, like a protein or an Enzyme. This is also how RNA changed over to DNA. (I'm not sure of the specifics on that). Now i could walk you through more steps, formation of the Nucleus, seperation of cells into aerobic and anaerobic (those able to tolerate the high amount of oxygen the cells are producing and those who are not) And even the formation of Multicellular structures, but that would take to long.
By: cheezsteak
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Brilliant, Mr. Missler. Over 100 whole years? Using peanuts, sugar and hydogenated palm oil as the media, not perhaps mineral salts dissolved in a brine solution and over billions of years.
It's just like the Einsteins who experience a cold day and declare that global warming is just a myth because of such an insufficient sampling.
Yeah, they passed any science course they ever took.
It's just like the Einsteins who experience a cold day and declare that global warming is just a myth because of such an insufficient sampling.
Yeah, they passed any science course they ever took.
By: spam_vigilante
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
In spite of the irradiation, killer pesticides, sterile conditions, vacuum seal, growth inhibiting preservatives, and genetically modified peanuts; there's always life in my jar of Jiff.
Oh, why do you taunt my faith with this unequivocal proof of Evolution?
Why me , oh Lord?
Oh, why do you taunt my faith with this unequivocal proof of Evolution?
Why me , oh Lord?
By: jaxon
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Ow, I think that almost made my head explode.
Perhaps we should quit looking for new life on Mars and start searching jars of peanut butter.
Perhaps we should quit looking for new life on Mars and start searching jars of peanut butter.
By: Geist
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
So that's why God has peanut butter grow on trees in plastic jars.
By: actual
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
When Christians give me a viable answer as to where God came from (supposedly life, out of... nothing? Older than forever?), I will pretend their other theories make more sense.
Even if God created Earth life, what created God? If God has always been, how can this be? Why is believing in Evolution any less viable than suggesting a living being created life as we know it?
The living being has to have come from somewhere, if we're to believe that life cannot be created out of non-life. Did life create God? If so, shouldn't we be worshiping whatever birthed God? To clarify, I don't mean The Virgin Mary.
Really, every single one of us is probably clueless, sans those we consider crazies. They might have a clue, but nobody would believe them.
Even if time is some kind of wonky Mobius Strip for The Big Guy, nobody can explain where he came from.
This is why I don't claim to know anything for sure. Makes me feel like less of an ass more often.
Even if God created Earth life, what created God? If God has always been, how can this be? Why is believing in Evolution any less viable than suggesting a living being created life as we know it?
The living being has to have come from somewhere, if we're to believe that life cannot be created out of non-life. Did life create God? If so, shouldn't we be worshiping whatever birthed God? To clarify, I don't mean The Virgin Mary.
Really, every single one of us is probably clueless, sans those we consider crazies. They might have a clue, but nobody would believe them.
Even if time is some kind of wonky Mobius Strip for The Big Guy, nobody can explain where he came from.
This is why I don't claim to know anything for sure. Makes me feel like less of an ass more often.
By: Limn42
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
It's a book by Richard Dawkins that advocates atheism, or at least agnosticism.
By: tvthefleshtone
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
MILITANT AGNOSTIC
I don't know AND YOU DON'T EITHER!!!
;)
I don't know AND YOU DON'T EITHER!!!
;)
By: scalpod
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Clearly the only solution to this is that god comes back in time from the future into which he/she was created by man to go back into time and create man to facilitate his/her own creation by man in the future from whence he/she comes.
And also religion is for idiots...and so was that sentence.
And also religion is for idiots...and so was that sentence.
By: ROXYBOO
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I am intrigued by your beliefs & wish to subscribe to your news letter.
By: Ellowen_Diowen
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
A tiny race of people evolved in my peanut butter once, ironically they started believing in creationalism too! :(
By: LWA
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I wish I had more time to deliberate this nonsense, but I just got home from work, and my brand-new lifeform pets, Crunchy and Creamy, both really need to be taken for a walk so they can poop some new life out..
Thank god for Science...
Thank god for Science...
By: hypersloth
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
mgaaarhh! OMG I just had the worst nightmare!!1
By: hypersloth
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I would have to say that stupidity such as this is often the strongest argument against creationism and people who argue for it
By: stoman101
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
1. Who is Chuck Missler?
2. How did he get so stupid?
3. Superchunk rules!!!
2. How did he get so stupid?
3. Superchunk rules!!!
By: lyzard
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
i've never heard of this guy and i kinda doubt he earned that title of 'engineer.' just saying engineer doesnt really tell you anything since there's so many different types, i doubt this man is any of them because he's failed to notice that last step of opening a jar of peanut butter where he takes off the vacuum seal.
this one definatly wasnt as good as the banana. my guess is that the next 'nightmares' in the series will be bread, chips, and soy milk. athiests everywhere will have to start avoiding lunch.
this one definatly wasnt as good as the banana. my guess is that the next 'nightmares' in the series will be bread, chips, and soy milk. athiests everywhere will have to start avoiding lunch.
By: raubhi
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
His story is here. I find it funny that he would just be a rich business man had he not lost everything in a bad deal...only then did he look to god to get rich. I'm going to start my own religious business, seems there's enough idiots out there who will blindly follow. Gimme money, I'll save your soul.
http://www.khouse.org/pages/mcat/khouse/about_the_misslers/
http://www.khouse.org/pages/mcat/khouse/about_the_misslers/
By: lyzard
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Don't waste your time.
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and his might Church of the SubGenius beat you to it long ago...
Eternal salvation or TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!
I mean, how can you beat that deal?
www.subgenius.com
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and his might Church of the SubGenius beat you to it long ago...
Eternal salvation or TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!
I mean, how can you beat that deal?
www.subgenius.com
By: scalpod
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Don't waste your time.
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and his mighty Church of the SubGenius beat you to it long ago...
Eternal salvation or TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!
I mean, how can you beat that deal?
www.subgenius.com
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and his mighty Church of the SubGenius beat you to it long ago...
Eternal salvation or TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!
I mean, how can you beat that deal?
www.subgenius.com
By: scalpod
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
A shark on whiskey, is mighty risky.
But a shark on beer, is a beer engineer.
But a shark on beer, is a beer engineer.
By: Freakyfred_3567
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I don't think people like this understand that there are people like me who were in the middle ground, not knowing if I was religious or not, who are persuaded against religion when they use stupid arguements like this to try to make a point.
By: hypersapien
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Just to be a douche and have my post be on this page and not in the conitinuation links, he said #5 as in it was another theory, Garritis put up for possible theories why cant he put up a fifth?
By: cheezsteak
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Sure, Christians always make all their theories and stated facts possible because "With God all things are possible". At the same time, Ahteists and Evolutionists replace God with Time. "With Time all things are possible". To say that one organism morphs into another seems very rediculous. But, then say that it happened over billions of year, now it seems more possible. That sort of deductive reasoning doesn't seem much more intelligent than the belief in God.
Also, someone asked, "Where did God come from?". Here's a more realistic question: "Where did matter come from?" Theoretically, the Big Bang started from concetrated mass, then expanded out creating the universe as we know it. Where did that first mass come from? Anyone want to answer this?
Just to help you out, there are a few theories:
1. Matter is eternal (meaning, it has always existed)
2. Time is circular, not linear (meaning, again, matter has always existed)
3. This is all a dream (Matrix theory, meaning, matter doesn't actually exist at all)
4. Something willed it into existence.
Also, someone asked, "Where did God come from?". Here's a more realistic question: "Where did matter come from?" Theoretically, the Big Bang started from concetrated mass, then expanded out creating the universe as we know it. Where did that first mass come from? Anyone want to answer this?
Just to help you out, there are a few theories:
1. Matter is eternal (meaning, it has always existed)
2. Time is circular, not linear (meaning, again, matter has always existed)
3. This is all a dream (Matrix theory, meaning, matter doesn't actually exist at all)
4. Something willed it into existence.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
5. Time is meaningless and relative, energy has always existed, and life and matter are just byproducts of this.
Anyway... either way this guy's still a douche.
Anyway... either way this guy's still a douche.
By: unr4veled
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
"energy has always existed, and life and matter are just byproducts of this."
Wow, you just stated something you likely don't actually know as a fact. Guys, take some advice from Mr. Segan and admit that there's not much difference between theory and faith.
Now, why can't a theist say "God has always existed and matter and life are just a creative byproduct of his."?
Understand that many intelligent theists I know don't start with blind faith. They begin with observable facts and data, then where that runs out (this is when science starts making theory), they venture into philosophy, then finally into faith (believing something to be true without complete and undeniable proof).
And, when it comes to the holes in Theism, there are plenty of theists that are trying to reconcile their faith with new data. And to many, it does not challenge there faith, but rather enhances it.
All these issues need to be approached with humility from both camps. Instead, it's just loaded with arrogance and presumptions. There in lies the real error- man's arrogance.
Wow, you just stated something you likely don't actually know as a fact. Guys, take some advice from Mr. Segan and admit that there's not much difference between theory and faith.
Now, why can't a theist say "God has always existed and matter and life are just a creative byproduct of his."?
Understand that many intelligent theists I know don't start with blind faith. They begin with observable facts and data, then where that runs out (this is when science starts making theory), they venture into philosophy, then finally into faith (believing something to be true without complete and undeniable proof).
And, when it comes to the holes in Theism, there are plenty of theists that are trying to reconcile their faith with new data. And to many, it does not challenge there faith, but rather enhances it.
All these issues need to be approached with humility from both camps. Instead, it's just loaded with arrogance and presumptions. There in lies the real error- man's arrogance.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Sorry, but:
Faith is a presumption of something that we don't know for sure and cannot prove;
Theories however, (in the scientific use of the word, not common use as i suspect you're using) are predictions based on things we know to be true, and can therefore be tested by experimentation.
After all, our understanding of gravitation is defined by a theory, but you don't need faith to to believe it exists.
Faith and theory, two very different things.
Faith is a presumption of something that we don't know for sure and cannot prove;
Theories however, (in the scientific use of the word, not common use as i suspect you're using) are predictions based on things we know to be true, and can therefore be tested by experimentation.
After all, our understanding of gravitation is defined by a theory, but you don't need faith to to believe it exists.
Faith and theory, two very different things.
By: gypo
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Faith starts as an answer, theory starts as a question. In that respect they are similar because they are opposites.
Example:
God -> created everything in seven days.
I wonder how I can plot the movement of the stars in the sky? -> heliocentrism -> gravity -> calculus -> redshift -> theory of relativity -> big bang theory (obviously there are a lot more steps in here)
Example:
God -> created everything in seven days.
I wonder how I can plot the movement of the stars in the sky? -> heliocentrism -> gravity -> calculus -> redshift -> theory of relativity -> big bang theory (obviously there are a lot more steps in here)
By: slage123
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Correction: according to scripture, God created the heavens in Six Days, not Seven. NOTE: this is something that scientific data is helping us to interpret in terms of eras, perhaps not days.
Wait a minute. Are you saying the only things that are true in the universe are things that can be proven? Hmm.
Maybe for you and your upbringing faith began with answers. Not mine. My faith began with hints and rumors, which led to endless questions.
Theory is based upon a series of facts that lead to a suggested conclusion. Faith is based upon a series of facts that lead to a suggested conclusion. Some of that data is the same in both cases, while some of the data is different. Or, better yet, some data is ignored because of personal bias.
Faith actaully begins with facts, deductive reasoning, and then reaches into places that reasoning and rationale can not longer handle. Not everyone has the stomach for such a journey.
Some days I have the stomach for it. Some days I don't.
Wait a minute. Are you saying the only things that are true in the universe are things that can be proven? Hmm.
Maybe for you and your upbringing faith began with answers. Not mine. My faith began with hints and rumors, which led to endless questions.
Theory is based upon a series of facts that lead to a suggested conclusion. Faith is based upon a series of facts that lead to a suggested conclusion. Some of that data is the same in both cases, while some of the data is different. Or, better yet, some data is ignored because of personal bias.
Faith actaully begins with facts, deductive reasoning, and then reaches into places that reasoning and rationale can not longer handle. Not everyone has the stomach for such a journey.
Some days I have the stomach for it. Some days I don't.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
The reason why the position taken by Atheists and Evolutionists is more tenable is because they have recorded data that supports their theory. The fossil record, even incomplete, suggests evolution.
You also have to keep in mind that science doesn't claim to have all the answers, it just claims that it is operating under a method which will get us closer to the truth. Science is actively trying to resolve difficult questions, such as "What was the origin of the universe?" The Creationist camp isn't actively trying to iron out the discrepancies in their theory; they're too busy trying to increase the size of their flock.
You also have to keep in mind that science doesn't claim to have all the answers, it just claims that it is operating under a method which will get us closer to the truth. Science is actively trying to resolve difficult questions, such as "What was the origin of the universe?" The Creationist camp isn't actively trying to iron out the discrepancies in their theory; they're too busy trying to increase the size of their flock.
By: i8ursandwich
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
There is an obvious flaw in your argument.
Being that the major difference between God and Time is that there is considerable evidence that one exists, and we can observe, measure and calculate its effects.
Being that the major difference between God and Time is that there is considerable evidence that one exists, and we can observe, measure and calculate its effects.
By: gypo
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Do you mean to tell me that you don't have flaws, holes or missing links in your arguemnts? Really? Pot, meet Kettle.
Some scientific data has such a short shelf-life. It's always changing, and even being apologized for because there's always new data coming in that contradicts the former. There's certainly nothing wrong with the gathering of new data. It's just that man loves to jump to conclusions about a great many things based on data that may be incomplete or even change later.
Others would suggest that the intricate order of the universe, it's unnessesary beauty, the innate sense of the "spiritual" or "after-life" weaved into mankind, and even personal experiences are enough to suggest that the existence of God is a possibility, even a reasonable one.
We should not stand on the top of our respective mountains laughing at one another. It took much thought and effort for all of us to stand where are.
I highly encourage you not to brush with such broad strokes as you take out your frustrations on the Theist. The whole issue is bigger than you, and bigger than what you claim to be so certain of.
Some scientific data has such a short shelf-life. It's always changing, and even being apologized for because there's always new data coming in that contradicts the former. There's certainly nothing wrong with the gathering of new data. It's just that man loves to jump to conclusions about a great many things based on data that may be incomplete or even change later.
Others would suggest that the intricate order of the universe, it's unnessesary beauty, the innate sense of the "spiritual" or "after-life" weaved into mankind, and even personal experiences are enough to suggest that the existence of God is a possibility, even a reasonable one.
We should not stand on the top of our respective mountains laughing at one another. It took much thought and effort for all of us to stand where are.
I highly encourage you not to brush with such broad strokes as you take out your frustrations on the Theist. The whole issue is bigger than you, and bigger than what you claim to be so certain of.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Honestly, the more you talk, the more you show that you have a very poor understanding of the topics you're speaking about, and the more you show your bias.
The fact that Science is constantly changing is a good thing. It's showing that people are actively making efforts to improve their theories, to get closer to the truth. If a theory is shown to have inconsistencies, it's revised or trashed; if a religion has inconsistencies, "it's just God's way." When's the last time significant changes have been made to the Bible?
Once again, the difference between science and faith is that science knows it's not 100% accurate, but it tries to improve itself; faith simply states that it's 100% accurate, without effort to back up its claims or even clarify blatant discrepancies.
The fact that Science is constantly changing is a good thing. It's showing that people are actively making efforts to improve their theories, to get closer to the truth. If a theory is shown to have inconsistencies, it's revised or trashed; if a religion has inconsistencies, "it's just God's way." When's the last time significant changes have been made to the Bible?
Once again, the difference between science and faith is that science knows it's not 100% accurate, but it tries to improve itself; faith simply states that it's 100% accurate, without effort to back up its claims or even clarify blatant discrepancies.
By: i8ursandwich
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
No, faith is believing, not knowing. Therefore, I think that you also demonstrate a poor understanding of the topics at hand. I have no certainly of God, only hope.
What do you place your hope in? There is such a thing as hope, right? Or, do I really need to back that up? I'd be glad to share with you dozens of human stories.
When talking about God, I don't normally go the theological route, I tell stories, stories that offer those hints and rumors. Science has theories behind them all, but never any real satisfactory explanations.
Tell me, is it possible that there is a God? Is it possible that this God interacts with us? I believe that is it possible. Now that makes me curious, and I start exploring it, not just by thought and theory, but by living this life and encountering and interpreting it as I go.
Sometimes I really think this is a godless world, while other times I believe it is his masterpiece, full of mystery, wonder and uncertainty. i wouldn't have it any other way.
While you are certainly more educated on certain matters, I am more educated on others. That shouldn't disqualify anyone from this sort of discussion. So, as I put up with your inferior knowledge of spirituality, perhaps you should put up with my inferior understanding of certain scientific points.
Cheers
What do you place your hope in? There is such a thing as hope, right? Or, do I really need to back that up? I'd be glad to share with you dozens of human stories.
When talking about God, I don't normally go the theological route, I tell stories, stories that offer those hints and rumors. Science has theories behind them all, but never any real satisfactory explanations.
Tell me, is it possible that there is a God? Is it possible that this God interacts with us? I believe that is it possible. Now that makes me curious, and I start exploring it, not just by thought and theory, but by living this life and encountering and interpreting it as I go.
Sometimes I really think this is a godless world, while other times I believe it is his masterpiece, full of mystery, wonder and uncertainty. i wouldn't have it any other way.
While you are certainly more educated on certain matters, I am more educated on others. That shouldn't disqualify anyone from this sort of discussion. So, as I put up with your inferior knowledge of spirituality, perhaps you should put up with my inferior understanding of certain scientific points.
Cheers
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
My bias is this: people who actually believe in God aren't idiots to be excused from the room by the scientific. Faith is the most difficult task a man can pursue. Those of the scientific world should pay them a little more respect as they speak so flippantly about them.
By: garrettis
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Yeah, show a little more respect as you flippantly talk about faith OVER THE INTERNET, USING A COMPUTER THAT RUNS ON ELECTRICITY, MADE OF MOLDED METALS AND PLASTICS WITH A SILICON BRAIN RUNNING SOFTWARE CODE.
To be fair, I'm arguing with your positions on faith with the power of prayer, it's just that YOU CAN'T HEAR ME.
To be fair, I'm arguing with your positions on faith with the power of prayer, it's just that YOU CAN'T HEAR ME.
By: scalpod
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I never really said that faith is knowing, but I suppose you could infer that. If you have "faith" that God exists, then you think that he exists. The difference between thinking something and knowing something is a matter of degree.
I know people have hope. I hope I get a good grade on my next test.
The dictionary definition of theology: "the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity." Telling stories, etc. isn't rigorous inspection, it's just vague inspection.
Of course it's possible that God exists and that he created the world; It's also possible that God is a Flying Spaghetti Monster; It's also possible that Unicorns existed; It's also possible that God has revealed all of the truths of the world unto one of those crazy bastards the government as locked up in an institution. Why should I believe any of those statements? I have no facts, and thus no reasons, to believe any of those statements. Just because science has not come up with an explanation for something absolutely does not mean that there is no scientific explanation for it.
If I thought you weren't' qualified for this kind of discussion, I wouldn't be having with you, would I?
I know people have hope. I hope I get a good grade on my next test.
The dictionary definition of theology: "the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity." Telling stories, etc. isn't rigorous inspection, it's just vague inspection.
Of course it's possible that God exists and that he created the world; It's also possible that God is a Flying Spaghetti Monster; It's also possible that Unicorns existed; It's also possible that God has revealed all of the truths of the world unto one of those crazy bastards the government as locked up in an institution. Why should I believe any of those statements? I have no facts, and thus no reasons, to believe any of those statements. Just because science has not come up with an explanation for something absolutely does not mean that there is no scientific explanation for it.
If I thought you weren't' qualified for this kind of discussion, I wouldn't be having with you, would I?
By: i8ursandwich
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
True, true. Look, you obviously come from a very modernistic mind-set. I think it's a lame distinction, but I use it anyway: Post-modernism turns all of that on it's head. Stories are real to people. People don't want rational arguments and facts. They want stories, stories about real people who have faith. They want to hear that having faith actually makes a difference in people's lives (the alcoholic, the mother who loses her son to suicide, the guy who got laid-off, the kid with cancer, the rape-victim, the college student who loses his scholarship). Sure, you may consider God the ultimate coping mechanism. But what if there's something more than that? Those stories, those lives are as close to proof as we will ever get, besides this physical universe that shouts of God and is covered with his fingerprints.
In regards to facts for Theists, more learned Theists actually study some history, literature, anthropology and archeology, which suggests much of what they already believe (I wish that operated in reverse, but it doesnt). So, yes, i believe Theism does have stated facts that make the possibility more likely. That's less than can be said about a Spaghetti Monster. Nice comment, Btw. Heard that somewhere before.
Take care.
In regards to facts for Theists, more learned Theists actually study some history, literature, anthropology and archeology, which suggests much of what they already believe (I wish that operated in reverse, but it doesnt). So, yes, i believe Theism does have stated facts that make the possibility more likely. That's less than can be said about a Spaghetti Monster. Nice comment, Btw. Heard that somewhere before.
Take care.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Who said anyone was replacing God? I just took him out of the picture.
And nobody thinks that all things are possible with time (The statement "P and not P" will be wrong in a million, billion years, but I digress...). That's just ridiculous. Please stop straw-manning, it's just disrespectful.
And nobody thinks that all things are possible with time (The statement "P and not P" will be wrong in a million, billion years, but I digress...). That's just ridiculous. Please stop straw-manning, it's just disrespectful.
By: i8ursandwich
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
"Please stop straw-manning, it's just disrespectful"
Did you say disrespectful? I'm not slamming your beliefs. You, among others, consider Theism irrationale. That's disrespectful. Many people really suffer to mantain their faith, through logical conflicts and the stuff that living life throws at you (loss, tragedy, suffering, death). I'm not out to defeat any belief. Rather, I'm simply asking you to stop slamming the beliefs of others and realize that you stand on similar foot-holds at times.
If you'd like to disagree with the conclusions that Theists come to, that's one thing. But to call their entire thought process ridiculous, that's (as you put it yourself) "disrespectful".
"Who said anyone was replacing God? I just took him out of the picture."
Friend, get your vulcan head out of your ass and return to being a human-being. Everyone has a "god", just by a different name. So, I ask again, what yours?
God is never just taken out of the picture without being replaced. He is always replaced with something. That's part of being human. We all worship. Everyone does. Some polish their restored '66 Mustang daily and go into debt in the process. What do you worship?
"And nobody thinks that all things are possible with time"
State the theory of evolution, minus billions of years. impossible and rediculous. Now, add billions of years to the equation, now it's not only possible, but believed with a certain degree of fanaticism. So yes, time serves as somewhat of a "god-factor" that makes all things possible.
good night.
Did you say disrespectful? I'm not slamming your beliefs. You, among others, consider Theism irrationale. That's disrespectful. Many people really suffer to mantain their faith, through logical conflicts and the stuff that living life throws at you (loss, tragedy, suffering, death). I'm not out to defeat any belief. Rather, I'm simply asking you to stop slamming the beliefs of others and realize that you stand on similar foot-holds at times.
If you'd like to disagree with the conclusions that Theists come to, that's one thing. But to call their entire thought process ridiculous, that's (as you put it yourself) "disrespectful".
"Who said anyone was replacing God? I just took him out of the picture."
Friend, get your vulcan head out of your ass and return to being a human-being. Everyone has a "god", just by a different name. So, I ask again, what yours?
God is never just taken out of the picture without being replaced. He is always replaced with something. That's part of being human. We all worship. Everyone does. Some polish their restored '66 Mustang daily and go into debt in the process. What do you worship?
"And nobody thinks that all things are possible with time"
State the theory of evolution, minus billions of years. impossible and rediculous. Now, add billions of years to the equation, now it's not only possible, but believed with a certain degree of fanaticism. So yes, time serves as somewhat of a "god-factor" that makes all things possible.
good night.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Straw-manning is when you set up a position, say that it's held by the opposition, and then show why said position is incorrect. I'm not slamming your beliefs; you fail to take this conversation in the context in which it is in. This is about evolution vs. creationism, and I am not "slamming" people on their beliefs. I'm slamming people who insist that silly ideas that have no data to support it should be taught in school, and be taken seriously in the scientific community. I really don't care if you worship Yahweh, Allah, or Gumby.
Someone who loves their car doesn't believe that their car created existence. You're playing fast and loose with the term God here, buddy. If you're asking me what I worship, then I can assure you, I worship nothing. I hold people in high regard, but I recognize that they are people with flaws; they haven't taken the place of any kind of deity, by any means. Please don't make assumptions about me, I at least try not to make any about you. If I have, my apologies.
The theory of evolution has the vast expanse of time built within it. That's like saying "Take the pythagorean theorem. Now take away the hypotenuse. See? It doesn't make any sense!"
Someone who loves their car doesn't believe that their car created existence. You're playing fast and loose with the term God here, buddy. If you're asking me what I worship, then I can assure you, I worship nothing. I hold people in high regard, but I recognize that they are people with flaws; they haven't taken the place of any kind of deity, by any means. Please don't make assumptions about me, I at least try not to make any about you. If I have, my apologies.
The theory of evolution has the vast expanse of time built within it. That's like saying "Take the pythagorean theorem. Now take away the hypotenuse. See? It doesn't make any sense!"
By: i8ursandwich
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
So i got a little personal. I apologize for that, if it made you uncomfortable. However, we can't just conveniently hide behind our respective factions and depend on them to speak and argue for us. It boils down to our own personal response to these issues. Unfortunately, much of what people believe, or don't believe, is simply intellectual plagiarism from others. They fail to really tackle these things in their own lives.
I think how we live our lives everyday speak more convincingly than our arguments.
I think how we live our lives everyday speak more convincingly than our arguments.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Oh please, it's "disrespectful" to correct someone that you think is wrong? It would be disrespectful to let someone continue making the same mistake.
If you think that God exists and that his "fingerprints" are all over the place, then you'll agree that he willed a son to commit suicide, a woman to be raped, and all of the other extreme things you said to add emphasis to your (poor) argument.
"Everyone has a God". I don't even know how to argue with you. I don't worship anything. I like my (few) possessions, I enjoy sex and food, I like the company of others - but I don't worship any of it. I don't give anyone thanks for the things I have because I provided them myself. I don't thank God when my life is perfect and I don't blame him when it's not. I might as well be thanking/blaming an invisible friend.
By: TheInquisitor
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Then, aren't you your own god? You don't believe in anyone, or anything, but yourself.
"If you think that God exists and that his "fingerprints" are all over the place, then you'll agree that he willed a son to commit suicide, a woman to be raped, and all of the other extreme things you said to add emphasis to your (poor) argument."
Um, no, I wouldn't agree with that. Why would I? You're putting theology in my mouth that isn't there. Exactly what sort of God are you trying to descrtibe to me? The one someone told you about? The one you learned about in Catholic School. You're a little narrow in your theology, which makes you grossly mistaken about a God you can't seem to observe, but would obviously be very pissed at if it was revealed that he existed.
Yes, I believe that the evidence of God is obervable in life around us, obviously at this point in your life that isn't observable by you. That may change someday. But that is what my eyes see. That is what I observe and that is what I wonder. I sometimes get really confused how exactly scientific data makes God non-existent. Perhaps we are observing details of a great engineer that conceived the very laws we are observing.
Tell me, how aware were you of your mother as you floated within her? There was a certain degree of awareness, but much. And while your mother was not very observable, you depended upon her for your life, he already had an affection for you, plans were already being made for you, and time was coming for you to enter into the world she was in, a very different world.
I believe that much of this life is simply metaphor of a life to come. We stand from a certain vantage point that fails to let us observe God as we would wish to. I know that's frustrating, but it doesn't absolutely prove that he doesn't exist. Rather, it may prove that we have a very limited vantage point.
Why does a fetus kick? Because it was designed to walk. It is only given hints of the world it will enter into and only then will it understand it's own body and everything that comes with it. But while in the womb it seems so useless to have legs, eyes and fingers. It is not until that child enters into the next world that all of that becomes clear.
Similar to a child kicking in the womb, mankind has always sensed the "spiritual", which may imply another world to come, another world to enter. But while in this life there are longings that just don't seem to be totally fulfilled. Perhaps those longings will be more understood when we enter the next life - for all of us.
Cheers.
"If you think that God exists and that his "fingerprints" are all over the place, then you'll agree that he willed a son to commit suicide, a woman to be raped, and all of the other extreme things you said to add emphasis to your (poor) argument."
Um, no, I wouldn't agree with that. Why would I? You're putting theology in my mouth that isn't there. Exactly what sort of God are you trying to descrtibe to me? The one someone told you about? The one you learned about in Catholic School. You're a little narrow in your theology, which makes you grossly mistaken about a God you can't seem to observe, but would obviously be very pissed at if it was revealed that he existed.
Yes, I believe that the evidence of God is obervable in life around us, obviously at this point in your life that isn't observable by you. That may change someday. But that is what my eyes see. That is what I observe and that is what I wonder. I sometimes get really confused how exactly scientific data makes God non-existent. Perhaps we are observing details of a great engineer that conceived the very laws we are observing.
Tell me, how aware were you of your mother as you floated within her? There was a certain degree of awareness, but much. And while your mother was not very observable, you depended upon her for your life, he already had an affection for you, plans were already being made for you, and time was coming for you to enter into the world she was in, a very different world.
I believe that much of this life is simply metaphor of a life to come. We stand from a certain vantage point that fails to let us observe God as we would wish to. I know that's frustrating, but it doesn't absolutely prove that he doesn't exist. Rather, it may prove that we have a very limited vantage point.
Why does a fetus kick? Because it was designed to walk. It is only given hints of the world it will enter into and only then will it understand it's own body and everything that comes with it. But while in the womb it seems so useless to have legs, eyes and fingers. It is not until that child enters into the next world that all of that becomes clear.
Similar to a child kicking in the womb, mankind has always sensed the "spiritual", which may imply another world to come, another world to enter. But while in this life there are longings that just don't seem to be totally fulfilled. Perhaps those longings will be more understood when we enter the next life - for all of us.
Cheers.
By: garrettis
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
First of all, a couple of people used the word "douchebag", and I think that's really all that needs to be said about this guy, but if we're going to raise the great Mr. Sagan, we have to acknowledge the thing he said over and over and over and over again, and still you guys don't get it, and so it said it some more, over and over and over: Science has the one HUGE difference that it is based on empiricism. It is an interpretation of physical measurements, and it is ALWAYS in doubt as long as facts don't support it, even by the person that postulated it.
Yes, it's amazing that perhaps maybe matter is "eternal" or that time is circular, but these ideas are deductions based on facts. The people who postulated these are trying to interpret the FACTS that definitely surround these questions. The people that choose to believe in God do so with NO facts to support. It doesn't mean he's not there - it just means there are no facts that appear to support it. Some day perhaps there will be.
The true test of integrity involving one school of thought over the other is this: Ask 100 creationists if it's possible that God perhaps does not exist, and 95 of them will tell you that this is NOT possible. Now ask 100 believers in evolution if it's possible that there is a God, and 95 of them will admit that of course it IS possible - we can't call it impossible if it can't be disproven.
Now which 100 people are likely to contribute something reasonable to the debate, and which 100 should be suspect?
Yes, it's amazing that perhaps maybe matter is "eternal" or that time is circular, but these ideas are deductions based on facts. The people who postulated these are trying to interpret the FACTS that definitely surround these questions. The people that choose to believe in God do so with NO facts to support. It doesn't mean he's not there - it just means there are no facts that appear to support it. Some day perhaps there will be.
The true test of integrity involving one school of thought over the other is this: Ask 100 creationists if it's possible that God perhaps does not exist, and 95 of them will tell you that this is NOT possible. Now ask 100 believers in evolution if it's possible that there is a God, and 95 of them will admit that of course it IS possible - we can't call it impossible if it can't be disproven.
Now which 100 people are likely to contribute something reasonable to the debate, and which 100 should be suspect?
By: ice-9
Re: The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
No, its:
"With time all things are possible within the laws of physics"
And well done for just copy and pasting your diatribe, i remember you posted the exact same post in another creation vs evolution thread.
and heres another theory.
5. Our universe exists within and was created in a multiverse . A theory which is strengthened by observations and calculations in quantum mechanics, Superposition and entanglement being two examples.
"With time all things are possible within the laws of physics"
And well done for just copy and pasting your diatribe, i remember you posted the exact same post in another creation vs evolution thread.
and heres another theory.
5. Our universe exists within and was created in a multiverse . A theory which is strengthened by observations and calculations in quantum mechanics, Superposition and entanglement being two examples.
By: gypo
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
These people are terribly childish. It's much akin to when a small child tries to convince everyone else that their dad is better than any other, so they come up with increasingly bizarre claims of his abilities. However, there comes a point in the child's life when he matures and accepts that there are faults in his logic. These nuts have clearly missed that maturation.
On a more personal note...
As an engineer, I shudder to think that he is one too. At what point does he begin saying, "I don't need to calculate the stress on that beam; God will hold it up."? Granted, that's not too likely, but still, when I'm working with other engineers, I like to know that they have both feet on the ground.
On a more personal note...
As an engineer, I shudder to think that he is one too. At what point does he begin saying, "I don't need to calculate the stress on that beam; God will hold it up."? Granted, that's not too likely, but still, when I'm working with other engineers, I like to know that they have both feet on the ground.
By: HousePayne
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I have a question for Mr. Missler.
Is your God so great and all powerful that it could create a jar of peanut butter so big, that not even he could finish all of it?
Is your God so great and all powerful that it could create a jar of peanut butter so big, that not even he could finish all of it?
By: jreed
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I love it when this site puts up a creationist's point of view... this video actually had some factual evidence, but nope... becuase it has to do with peanut butter, obviously an all too common and not a very serious example to base beliefs off of, you all get rowdied up and ban together to make jokes and wisecracks of the situation, just to make sure any bit of seriousness is diluted so theres no worries in your mind.
However when M&C puts up an episode of Bullshit with Penn, a highly acredited individual who would never try and deceive a soul... you all really like that sort of thing... watching that fat ponytailed man cuss, ridicule and just try to make his opposition look like complete morons... that really gives you guys a sense of security and you all attempt to leave serious and thought provoking comments on the particular subject.
Well i expect some sarcastic remarks and cheap shots from this comment, but I dont really care, i have much more security from my beliefs than most of you do, i dont have to live my life proving other people are wrong, if people want to listen they will listen.
Have an intellectual day!
However when M&C puts up an episode of Bullshit with Penn, a highly acredited individual who would never try and deceive a soul... you all really like that sort of thing... watching that fat ponytailed man cuss, ridicule and just try to make his opposition look like complete morons... that really gives you guys a sense of security and you all attempt to leave serious and thought provoking comments on the particular subject.
Well i expect some sarcastic remarks and cheap shots from this comment, but I dont really care, i have much more security from my beliefs than most of you do, i dont have to live my life proving other people are wrong, if people want to listen they will listen.
Have an intellectual day!
By: jtraik
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
How do you know you have more security in your beliefs than me?
It sounds like yet another presumption based on nothing more than what you want to believe.
Where have i heard that before?
It sounds like yet another presumption based on nothing more than what you want to believe.
Where have i heard that before?
By: gypo
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
> i dont have to live my life proving other people are wrong
Good for you. Especially when you can't.
Good for you. Especially when you can't.
By: IAmDeK
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
i'm goign to have to go with fred here and ask you for examples of the factual part of this video.
this video is dying to be ridiculed. i mean the title alone inspires laughter in that all atheists are going to realize that they're wrong because a food product in an air free container filled with preservatives wont sprout new life after being on a shelf for a week or two.
stating that you have more security in your beliefs than someone else doesnt suggest it. we arent making fun of this vid because we're insecure in our beliefs, we're making fun of it because it is rediculous.
no one here is worried about the threat of peanut butter to our beliefs. may i present you with the evidence that is peanut butter pie.
this video is dying to be ridiculed. i mean the title alone inspires laughter in that all atheists are going to realize that they're wrong because a food product in an air free container filled with preservatives wont sprout new life after being on a shelf for a week or two.
stating that you have more security in your beliefs than someone else doesnt suggest it. we arent making fun of this vid because we're insecure in our beliefs, we're making fun of it because it is rediculous.
no one here is worried about the threat of peanut butter to our beliefs. may i present you with the evidence that is peanut butter pie.
By: raubhi
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Notice that in the beginning of the clip, the narrator said, "Energy, such as lightning or heat, plus matter can OCCASIONALLY create new life." But then in the rest of the clip when the guy is examining the jar of peanut butter, he speaks as if every combination of energy and matter creates new life. The word "occasionally" means that even if the conditions are met, the result won't always happen. I think this invalidates the whole argument he's making.
Also, creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive of each other. I think the Catholic church has accepted evolution as possible. After all, you can believe that God created the first matter, created time, and all that stuff you need to get the universe started, and that after doing so, He left His creation to itself to change/develop/morph into whatever it happens to. Who is to say that God or whatever supreme being that "existed before existence" didn't plan things to evolve in the first place?
Also, creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive of each other. I think the Catholic church has accepted evolution as possible. After all, you can believe that God created the first matter, created time, and all that stuff you need to get the universe started, and that after doing so, He left His creation to itself to change/develop/morph into whatever it happens to. Who is to say that God or whatever supreme being that "existed before existence" didn't plan things to evolve in the first place?
By: billison
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
What this clip seems to miss is that the chemicals on the Earth had billions of years to mix, and over that time, so much happens that can render surprising, unexpected results. Lighting, tectonics, tidal movement, and meteorites all create events that can help create the chemicals and structure needed for a cell. Plus, remember we are not the only planet in the universe. Of the trillions out there, surely at least a few others have significant water/ammonia (a substance that can probably sustain alien life). Out of all those factors and randomness, it makes sense that at least one planet would have life. We're just the ones here to recognize that there is life, fail to intuitively understand the sheer size and randomness of the universe, and declare divine intervention could only create life.
Leave 1 trillion jars in a sterile environment for 1-10 billion years, dilute them with enough water so potential microorganisms can move (I don't think it's too much to ask, considering the sheer size and amount of planets out there to ask for this) and have a sterilized robot stir them up, and occasionally transfer gobs between jars, and then we'll talk. Seeing as to how peanut butter already has complicated organic molecules and snippets of DNA, life may form ahead of schedule.
Leave 1 trillion jars in a sterile environment for 1-10 billion years, dilute them with enough water so potential microorganisms can move (I don't think it's too much to ask, considering the sheer size and amount of planets out there to ask for this) and have a sterilized robot stir them up, and occasionally transfer gobs between jars, and then we'll talk. Seeing as to how peanut butter already has complicated organic molecules and snippets of DNA, life may form ahead of schedule.
By: tvthefleshtone
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Evolution is big enough for atheists, agnostics and believers alike. I would like to welcome all to the table of evolution, and to say that just because one believes in a "higher power" or considers oneself spiritual or even religious does not mean one is therefore a creationist.
By: BoogeBoogieston
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I'm speechless. He could actually managed to look at that buttery smooth peanut spread without eating it. That is willpower. Praise be to God.
By: Wondahboy
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Uh matter and energy does create life, like bacteria. Also there is a difference between faith and theory: Theories are based on fact and testable. I suggest everyone look up the term scientific theory. Gravity, for example, is a theory.
By: maxpower1013
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Perhaps we should take some iron ore, a sort of primordial ooze if you will, put it all in an industrial strength dryer and let it spin around for about 200 years. Theoretically, something like an assembled, perfectly machined, Chevy 454 big block with a perfect paint job should fall onto the floor after this ludicrously long cycle. Seeing as how this engine, even perfectly machined and assembled... is thousands upon thousands times less complicated than something as trivial as a skin cell, the random events in the dryer over these 200 years should yield nothing, any less complicated than this combustion engine.
MMMMM peanut butter pie... mmmmmm
MMMMM peanut butter pie... mmmmmm
By: jtraik
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
if the peanut was to "come to life" why not just say the jar would aswell ? or his clothes? The man needs a few classes in chemistry biology and physics, wee bit of understanding of the laws of entropy wouldn't do him any harm now would it ?
By: D3NIS
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Ummm ok... but your just proving the nonsense of the evolutionary standpoint... that the peanut would simply pop into existence.
By: jtraik
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
I don't know how you and Mr. Missler can dismiss evolutionary theory when you don't even understand what it is. Missler is basically saying abiogenesis (spontaneous generation of life) is impossible. (using a terribly poor example) The theory of evolution doesn't address abiogenesis. Evolution is change through mutations whether beneficial or not. My definition of evolution is probably not the best but its much more accurate than your or Misslers understanding of it. You also don't have to be an Atheist to think evolutionary theory is correct. Christian scientists have actually contributed a lot to support the theory.
By: Crabjuice
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
No abiogenesis ehh?
Ok, evolutionists don't adress abiogenesis, but they will make the small exception of the universe creating itself...
No abiogenesis, but evolutionists believe that atoms randomly bonded together in a primordial pool to form an extremely complex living cell.
Ok, evolutionists don't adress abiogenesis, but they will make the small exception of the universe creating itself...
No abiogenesis, but evolutionists believe that atoms randomly bonded together in a primordial pool to form an extremely complex living cell.
By: jtraik
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Nope. You still have it wrong. No where in the theory of evolution is there anything about the universe creating itself. Any talk about the universe is cosmology, not biology. Also, the process of evolution is not random. Part of evolutionary process is called natural selection. No randomness there. If you really want to know about evolution I recommend www.talkorigins.org . There you might come to realize that you can actually believe in God and evolution. If not, at least you will have knowledge of the theory so your criticisms might actually have merit.
By: Crabjuice
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
According to this MSNBC article 48% of Americans reject evolution....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17879317/site/newsweek/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17879317/site/newsweek/
By: Gone725
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
Before I read the comments, I thought this video was going to be a spoof of that rather famous Kirk Cameron video: "The Atheist's Nightmare: The Banana" .
Instead, I now realize that this is merely another video in a long unwatchable series. What's next? "The Atheist's Nightmare: Chocolate"?
Instead, I now realize that this is merely another video in a long unwatchable series. What's next? "The Atheist's Nightmare: Chocolate"?
By: qazwart
Engineer?
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler:
In 1999, Chuck Missler received his Ph.D. from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University where he is currently a speaker.
In 1999, Chuck Missler received his Ph.D. from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University where he is currently a speaker.
By: qazwart
Re: Engineer?
Yes, but it also says he received a masters at the University of California Los Angeles in engineering. Doesn't matter though. He could be a genius at engineering but he probably doesn't know squat about biology, geology or chemistry. Or he chooses
to ignore what he knows because it conflicts with his faith. Willful ignorance. Yecch.
to ignore what he knows because it conflicts with his faith. Willful ignorance. Yecch.
By: Crabjuice
Re: Engineer?
Agreed. Where he's from, what school he graduated, his favorite color... these things have no bearing on the veracity of his point. At the end of the day, he's still an idiot, spouting a stupid point that blatantly misconstrues and misrepresents the theory of evolution.
By: i8ursandwich
The Atheist's Nightmare: Peanut Butter
First, I'd like to recommend a book entitled "Finding Faith: The Search for what Makes Sense" by Brian McLaren. There is a sister book called "Finding Faith: The Search for what is Real", which is irrelevant to this conversation. Pick up the "Makes Sense" title and I think you'll get into the head of those who seek faith, experience faith and even lose faith. It does not offer answers or empirical evidence. Rather, it suggests a proper way to explore faith issues, along with asking endless questions.
"Is there a God?", is a unique question in science, because it's inquiring about an architect that not only conceived of all time, matter, life and physical law, but also is not limited by those things, and likely doesn't occupy those confines like we do. How does one actually measure that?
The anwer to that question, for most, cannot be answered cognitively. It may be suggested by many things in this universe, but the universe doesn't truly offer any actual proof. The route by which someone can answer this for themselves is faith. And faith is something that stretches you way past the cognitive and into the non-cognitive.
But in reality, perhaps it's not much of a stretch for us, because that is how most of our lives are lives day to day- non-cognitively (thoughts, emotions, feelings, experiences, questions of purpose). Sceince and Evolutionary Theory may try to offer explanations behind those very things, but in the end show themselves to be rather irrelevant to our daily personal lives. We still seem to fall in love, feel alone, wonder if there is something more to this world, and have things happen around us that do not have any clear explanations. Regardless of data or scientific theory, this is how our lives will continue to be lived.
It is in that realm that we ask questions, real questions about God, because it has to do with our personal lives. Science and evolutionary theory don't have much to do with our personal lives in terms of "the real questions" we wrestle with daily. We will still have feelings, thoughts and experiences that science doesn't seem to satisfy. What will, then? That is when we start exploring faith.
We explore faith, because we're smart enough to know that science will not discover God for us. He must be discovered by some other means. Faith seems to be that vehicle. It is something sought, not always had. It can be allusive and frustrating, but at least it's a path worth exploring.
The problem with Theists is that they often claim that it's obvious and unquestionable that there is a God, as if there is actual scientific evidence. In doing so, they even try to leave the realm of their own faith to prove cognitively that there is a God. That's a big mistake on their part. Again, I do believe that the univserse suggests his existence, but certainly offers no proof of it.
Perhaps it is in man's desperate search and awareness of God, that the most convincing argument is built. He may very well be real, but I wouldn't wait for science to answer that for you. You must answer that for yourself. And so for those that deny his existence:
1. You don't have enough knowledge of the universe to truly make that claim in terms of absolutes. You're not an Atheist, you're an Agnostic, because you simply don't know if there is a God. At least for the sake of humility (which is a very good virtue), admit that you simply don't know. Otherwise you're claiming to know the expanse of the entire universe, and you don't.
2. You're only working with half of your brain when attempting to prove he exists through conventional means. Remember that there is a non-cognitive realm that needs to be investigated within all of us. I suggest operating and exploring on both levels.
In the meantime, it's a wonderful discussion and should cause everyone to question what they believe and why they believe it. It pushes us down the path a little more.
Thanks for the discussion, eveyone. It really made me think. I apologize anyone that I may have offended along the way. Hope we can consider one another friends.
Cheers
"Is there a God?", is a unique question in science, because it's inquiring about an architect that not only conceived of all time, matter, life and physical law, but also is not limited by those things, and likely doesn't occupy those confines like we do. How does one actually measure that?
The anwer to that question, for most, cannot be answered cognitively. It may be suggested by many things in this universe, but the universe doesn't truly offer any actual proof. The route by which someone can answer this for themselves is faith. And faith is something that stretches you way past the cognitive and into the non-cognitive.
But in reality, perhaps it's not much of a stretch for us, because that is how most of our lives are lives day to day- non-cognitively (thoughts, emotions, feelings, experiences, questions of purpose). Sceince and Evolutionary Theory may try to offer explanations behind those very things, but in the end show themselves to be rather irrelevant to our daily personal lives. We still seem to fall in love, feel alone, wonder if there is something more to this world, and have things happen around us that do not have any clear explanations. Regardless of data or scientific theory, this is how our lives will continue to be lived.
It is in that realm that we ask questions, real questions about God, because it has to do with our personal lives. Science and evolutionary theory don't have much to do with our personal lives in terms of "the real questions" we wrestle with daily. We will still have feelings, thoughts and experiences that science doesn't seem to satisfy. What will, then? That is when we start exploring faith.
We explore faith, because we're smart enough to know that science will not discover God for us. He must be discovered by some other means. Faith seems to be that vehicle. It is something sought, not always had. It can be allusive and frustrating, but at least it's a path worth exploring.
The problem with Theists is that they often claim that it's obvious and unquestionable that there is a God, as if there is actual scientific evidence. In doing so, they even try to leave the realm of their own faith to prove cognitively that there is a God. That's a big mistake on their part. Again, I do believe that the univserse suggests his existence, but certainly offers no proof of it.
Perhaps it is in man's desperate search and awareness of God, that the most convincing argument is built. He may very well be real, but I wouldn't wait for science to answer that for you. You must answer that for yourself. And so for those that deny his existence:
1. You don't have enough knowledge of the universe to truly make that claim in terms of absolutes. You're not an Atheist, you're an Agnostic, because you simply don't know if there is a God. At least for the sake of humility (which is a very good virtue), admit that you simply don't know. Otherwise you're claiming to know the expanse of the entire universe, and you don't.
2. You're only working with half of your brain when attempting to prove he exists through conventional means. Remember that there is a non-cognitive realm that needs to be investigated within all of us. I suggest operating and exploring on both levels.
In the meantime, it's a wonderful discussion and should cause everyone to question what they believe and why they believe it. It pushes us down the path a little more.
Thanks for the discussion, eveyone. It really made me think. I apologize anyone that I may have offended along the way. Hope we can consider one another friends.
Cheers
By: garrettis
