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Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Penn and Teller examine the difference between Evolution and Intelligent Design.
Long run time.
From the show Bullshit.
Long run time.
From the show Bullshit.
Feb 9, 2007 11:30 AM
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Well scary, like PROPER scary in the U.K. we only really read about these nutters but seeing them is something else... (worse than that we tend to suppose most Americans are this way - so again with the kudos for this post)
And macs Vs. PCs? What kind of intellectual retard are you?
I can only assume you are making the (non)point as you yourself believe flying dinosaurs carried Noah's sons around the globe to collect the indigenous species?
And macs Vs. PCs? What kind of intellectual retard are you?
I can only assume you are making the (non)point as you yourself believe flying dinosaurs carried Noah's sons around the globe to collect the indigenous species?
By: Whoozee
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Good Viewing!!
I wanna know what side of the fence Jaxon sits on Evolution or Creationism?
I wanna know what side of the fence Jaxon sits on Evolution or Creationism?
By: PI55_FLAP5
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Seems to be that he might of went in on the Evolution side and gradually moved to the other side.
The Earth is 6,000 years old theory, isn't this the belief of just a small part of the Christian Church.
The Earth is 6,000 years old theory, isn't this the belief of just a small part of the Christian Church.
By: tekpa
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Americans, on the whole, are not that stupid. When you see something on television, it's always the very best of us or the very worst of us.
This was an excellent episode. Remember, evolution is just a theory. Just like gravity.
By: TheInquisitor
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Even as an atheist, I believe in the right of someone to think that the Earth is only 6000 years old. But they simply don't have the right to teach my children this in a public school system and certainly not as science. I would very much support an elective class entitled, "World Religions" and teach young people about all the great faiths, religions and philosophies. Oh, but would anyone at the Institute for Creative Science be in favor of their children learning about Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius, Tao or to study Shintoism?
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
"...Remember, evolution is just a theory. Just like gravity. "
Actually, gravity is a law (e.g. Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation). I get the point you're making though -- just substitute in the Theory of Relativity instead, or something.
Actually, gravity is a law (e.g. Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation). I get the point you're making though -- just substitute in the Theory of Relativity instead, or something.
By: deconsecrator
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
If any of you have an hour to spare, you can watch Catholic biologist Kenneth Miller as he tears open a new asshole on Intelligent Design and the Discovery Institute here.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
He was one one of the witnesses in the Kitzmiller trial.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
He was one one of the witnesses in the Kitzmiller trial.
By: Confuzor
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Excellent! Thank you for the link, Confuzor. Ken Millers's talk on this subject is much more substantial than Penn and Teller's bit. Miller addresses the key arguments of ID and completely rips them apart with hard evidence. His talk remains above board and civil. His passion for science is such that in the Q&A section, he even declines making what would have been a polarizing political statement. Miller's talk is a must-see for anyone interested in this topic.
By: Hummm
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Actually, there *are* theories of gravity, which posit *how* gravity works and where it fits in with the other forces in nature. It comes in - among others - Aristotelian, dynamic, kinetic, and quantum flavors. Most of these have been disproven.
By: bluemonq
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Quantum for atomic and subatomic leves, and relativity for planetary levels (those are the ones that work best). Then there is string theory, M theory (a generalization of string theory), and quantum Loop theory.
By: cheezsteak
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
6,000 years old my ass. carbon dating is the thing that disproves that. For the people that don't know how it works is this : Carbon has a radioactive isotope, radiation has a half life, so by working out what stage the half life is at, we count backwards to see how old it actually is. Now by this logic, i challenge any one who does not believe the world is older than this to step into a nuclear reactor and come out unharmed. Because basically they are saying that they do not believe in radiation. Do you think that their faith is so strong that they are willing to die for it ? If they did come out of it unharmed, I will cut off my left testicle (well not me a surgeon, no idea how to do it) and shall be forced to take on their viewing of the world, as there will be no undisputed proof. You may not think i will be up for the testicle thing, but people who know me will understand my willingness to do it. Its a long story and shall not bore you with the details.
By: D3NIS
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
sorry its meant to say that "you may NOT think I'm up for losing a testicle"
By: D3NIS
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
forgot one thing about the fossils, they say that there should be more fossils deeper in the earth that prove that its even older, but they do forget that those fossils are powering their cars. I think its all in the name really, you know FOSSIL FUEL. Millions of years of pressure under ground etc.
By: D3NIS
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Interesting ... most of the ratings are either "lame" or "amazing." Makes sense. There's not much middle ground on this issue.
I would like to know what skeptics of evolution have to say about antibiotics. Explain why a drug can efficiently kill germs at first, but then a few germs with slightly different DNA are able to resist the medication. Those germs survive and multiply by the billions, until you have a medicine that is worthless.
Isn't that survival of the fittest, or evolution on a microscopic scale?
I would like to know what skeptics of evolution have to say about antibiotics. Explain why a drug can efficiently kill germs at first, but then a few germs with slightly different DNA are able to resist the medication. Those germs survive and multiply by the billions, until you have a medicine that is worthless.
Isn't that survival of the fittest, or evolution on a microscopic scale?
By: ghost_dog5150
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Well, it's clearly because God allows the antibiotics to kill the germs initially to give us hope in our own designs. Then later, he allows the germs to overcome the antibiotics so as to show us how fruitless our endeavours are. That way, we can only look to Him for our salvation. ;)
See, I can spout Bullshit, too.
See, I can spout Bullshit, too.
By: NuclearExchange
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
You'll hear a lot of creationists claim that they accept "microevolution," superficial changes in a species that are the closest we can come to directly observing evolution in action. Drug-resistent germs are one example. So are differences in human skin color and some of the classic examples of evolution, like the change in the color of moths during the industrial revolution (darker ones blended in better with sooty tree bark).
What they don't accept is "macroevolution", the evolution of new species. This is a convenient dodge, as it allows creationists to cling to the idea that god created all the kinds of animals, and that humans did not evolve from another species.
What they don't accept is "macroevolution", the evolution of new species. This is a convenient dodge, as it allows creationists to cling to the idea that god created all the kinds of animals, and that humans did not evolve from another species.
By: tsackett
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
The moth-change example you sited is a myth. Though natural selection may have aided the darker moths, evolution is completely separate in this case.
Gravity is a theory, not a law. Newton's law of universal gravitation is an approximation which is used because it is much simpler. Gravity, as defined by the general theory of relativity, is a theory.
Theory - a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena
By: TheInquisitor
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
I'm not sure I agree with you on the moth thing. The wikipedia article on the peppered moth gives a good overview of the original study and attempts to debunk it.
You've raised a good point about gravity.
You've raised a good point about gravity.
By: tsackett
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Everyone knows the Christians are all right, cuz they are the only religion.. WRONG. get of your high horse you religious nuts. I was a Christian, but i got better, I began to think and study. Keep your faith out of my schools.
By: Spacenut
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Can you say anything that isn't on a bumper sticker?
By: ninestories
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
Wow, is this seriously the first time this link has been submitted? I could absolutlely swear I've seen this Penn and Teller "Bible suxxx" shtick at least two times previous to this one. I know you guys all think anything that bashes Christianity is gold, but come on, don't you think you could just watch one of the old ones again rather than nocking down new and better material?
By: Hubrid
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
And waht do you suggest we post instead? Content is content. If you don't like it, move on.
By: ninestories
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
ok, so the argument the jesus folk are using to get this into the classrooms that people of all faith pay for is this:
creationism is another theory as to how we came to be and therefore should be presented to allow the student to decide for themselves what to believe.
if that actually is their best argument as to why a religion should be taught in a school then technically all theories of our existense should be taught. i believe the nordic people believed that a giant cow licked some ice and unfroze man (if i'm wrong i appologize to my viking friends reading this. please do not pilledge my town.) most people are gonan think that's pretty far fetched and shouldnt be taught as science. (not me, of course. i complete support the mighty norseman's beliefs.)
so how does this argument fly if it cant work for the nonjudeo christian religions? oh wait thats right, because they want their beliefs taught instead of science, not alongside.
again i'll say that christians will stop at nothing to remove all doubt that their religion is false.
....not like the vikings
creationism is another theory as to how we came to be and therefore should be presented to allow the student to decide for themselves what to believe.
if that actually is their best argument as to why a religion should be taught in a school then technically all theories of our existense should be taught. i believe the nordic people believed that a giant cow licked some ice and unfroze man (if i'm wrong i appologize to my viking friends reading this. please do not pilledge my town.) most people are gonan think that's pretty far fetched and shouldnt be taught as science. (not me, of course. i complete support the mighty norseman's beliefs.)
so how does this argument fly if it cant work for the nonjudeo christian religions? oh wait thats right, because they want their beliefs taught instead of science, not alongside.
again i'll say that christians will stop at nothing to remove all doubt that their religion is false.
....not like the vikings
By: raubhi
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
I wanted to say something else.
The vast majority of the US is Christian, Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim. If we all wanted creationism to be taught, you'd damn well better know it'd happen and there's nothing you could possibly do about it short of run away.
But we don't. It's the rednecks, the crazies, the evangelicals that the media is interviewing, with a minority of generally confused Catholics following along because their government-like religious structure is telling them to. Some states are unlucky enough to have a big enough following that it might happen, and I mourn for it just as much as the rest of you. Why the hell can't church and state keep a little more separate? -_-
The vast majority of the US is Christian, Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim. If we all wanted creationism to be taught, you'd damn well better know it'd happen and there's nothing you could possibly do about it short of run away.
But we don't. It's the rednecks, the crazies, the evangelicals that the media is interviewing, with a minority of generally confused Catholics following along because their government-like religious structure is telling them to. Some states are unlucky enough to have a big enough following that it might happen, and I mourn for it just as much as the rest of you. Why the hell can't church and state keep a little more separate? -_-
By: Hubrid
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
That's why whenever creationists convince a local school board to do anything for creationism (stickers reminding students that evolution is just a theory on bio textbooks), that board usually gets recalled by the mobs of angry voters. The board from Kitzmer vrs Dover got recalled before the court case even finished.
The only exception to this is some county in kansas, that rewrote the definition for science so that it isn't the study of just the natural world.
The only exception to this is some county in kansas, that rewrote the definition for science so that it isn't the study of just the natural world.
By: cheezsteak
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
That's why whenever creationists convince a local school board to do anything for creationism (stickers reminding students that evolution is just a theory on bio textbooks), that board usually gets recalled by the mobs of angry voters. The board from Kitzmer vrs Dover got recalled before the court case even finished.
The only exception to this is some county in kansas, that rewrote the definition for science so that it isn't the study of just the natural world.
The only exception to this is some county in kansas, that rewrote the definition for science so that it isn't the study of just the natural world.
By: cheezsteak
Here is the extent of the problem
The real issue is understanding.
All of these people pushing for creationism just don't understand or 'get' evolution. They find it too hard to grasp, too 'improbable', too difficult to accept that they just may be descendant from apes. However, give them one book to read, one man in a pulpit telling them the way things are in really damn simple terms... and they can handle that. They can easily go 'God created the world in 6 days'... one sentence, I can understand that.
It's a refusal on their part to even TRY to spend some time understanding scientific reasoning, fact and method. They just don't want to. Accepting the bible is EASY, and that's the way they like it. It's too much EFFORT to learn about science and to allow yourself to understand it and see 'my god, I might actually be wrong'.
It's the way of most of the bigotry, hate and violence really, a lack of effort in learning about other things. "Just leave me with my ways and my tiny set of beliefs, and don't you dare have any others or try to teach me otherwise".
I'd feel sorry for them if there weren't so damn many of them and they were running the world's most powerful nation into the ground, and taking the rest of the world with them.
All of these people pushing for creationism just don't understand or 'get' evolution. They find it too hard to grasp, too 'improbable', too difficult to accept that they just may be descendant from apes. However, give them one book to read, one man in a pulpit telling them the way things are in really damn simple terms... and they can handle that. They can easily go 'God created the world in 6 days'... one sentence, I can understand that.
It's a refusal on their part to even TRY to spend some time understanding scientific reasoning, fact and method. They just don't want to. Accepting the bible is EASY, and that's the way they like it. It's too much EFFORT to learn about science and to allow yourself to understand it and see 'my god, I might actually be wrong'.
It's the way of most of the bigotry, hate and violence really, a lack of effort in learning about other things. "Just leave me with my ways and my tiny set of beliefs, and don't you dare have any others or try to teach me otherwise".
I'd feel sorry for them if there weren't so damn many of them and they were running the world's most powerful nation into the ground, and taking the rest of the world with them.
By: spoco2
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
I would love to have the Human race destroyed right now. Then I wouldn't have to read all these stupid video responses where people argue their point and think they are getting somewhere.
By: pm_42
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
I'll say what I say to my kids. There might be a god, and there might not. People will tell you that the Bible is god's message to us, but it's paper and ink and glue, just like a romance novel. It comes from a book manufactory somewhere, just like a comic book. It's written in an ancient language that is not spoken by anyone on earth, and has been translated many ways, by many men, like the Iliad and the Odyssey. When did god deliver this message to you? He didn't - you had to buy it at the store, or receive it as a gift, like I'm OK, You're OK, or the Origin of Species, or Catcher in the Rye. It comes to you from man, period. It doesn't mean you reject it, but it means you don't worship it. It is not of god.
Christians like to ignore the fact that Jesus himself rejected the tenets of his own religion (hate thine enemy, eye for an eye, etc.), never said anything about homosexuality, rarely was in a church of any kind, except to decry it a den of thieves and its inhabitants hypocrites. He said that to display our religion in public was also hypocrisy, that your government was not the custodian of your soul, that rich people would not enter heaven, that to judge others was the job of God alone...I could go on forever, but the fact is that, like the Bible in general, Jesus had some great ideas and the best intentions, and yet, like the Bible, he's been twisted and bent to fit this self-serving, power and influence seeking social agenda. I read the new testament when I was about 12, because I wanted to know for myself whether he was for real. I was amazed to find that his teaching was really wonderful and enlightening, and was ashamed of the "Christianity" of which I was supposed to be a part. It is, with few exceptions, the wolf in sheep's clothing that Jesus himself warned us about. I truly believe that it's evil.
As for the matter of evolution vs. intelligent design, I make this point to my children: Ask 100 creationists if it's possible that God perhaps does not exist, and 95 of them will tell you that this is NOT possible. Now ask 100 believers in evolution if it's possible that there is a God, and 95 of them will admit that of course it IS possible - we can't call it impossible if it can't be disproven.
Now which 100 people are likely to contribute something reasonable to the debate, and which 100 should be suspect?
Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!
-Brian
Christians like to ignore the fact that Jesus himself rejected the tenets of his own religion (hate thine enemy, eye for an eye, etc.), never said anything about homosexuality, rarely was in a church of any kind, except to decry it a den of thieves and its inhabitants hypocrites. He said that to display our religion in public was also hypocrisy, that your government was not the custodian of your soul, that rich people would not enter heaven, that to judge others was the job of God alone...I could go on forever, but the fact is that, like the Bible in general, Jesus had some great ideas and the best intentions, and yet, like the Bible, he's been twisted and bent to fit this self-serving, power and influence seeking social agenda. I read the new testament when I was about 12, because I wanted to know for myself whether he was for real. I was amazed to find that his teaching was really wonderful and enlightening, and was ashamed of the "Christianity" of which I was supposed to be a part. It is, with few exceptions, the wolf in sheep's clothing that Jesus himself warned us about. I truly believe that it's evil.
As for the matter of evolution vs. intelligent design, I make this point to my children: Ask 100 creationists if it's possible that God perhaps does not exist, and 95 of them will tell you that this is NOT possible. Now ask 100 believers in evolution if it's possible that there is a God, and 95 of them will admit that of course it IS possible - we can't call it impossible if it can't be disproven.
Now which 100 people are likely to contribute something reasonable to the debate, and which 100 should be suspect?
Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!
-Brian
By: ice-9
Re: Penn and Teller: Intelligent Design
I was pretty sure that this episode existed and almost submitted a duplicate because of the wrong title.
Mirror added, BTW:
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2307760
The correct episode of this show is "Creationism", as it was from the first season of Bullshit, #8 to be specific. First aired: 3/14/2003. Maybe a correction is in order?
Mirror added, BTW:
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2307760
The correct episode of this show is "Creationism", as it was from the first season of Bullshit, #8 to be specific. First aired: 3/14/2003. Maybe a correction is in order?
By: spam_vigilante


