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Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
On the Sept. 10th edition of The Late, Late Show with Craig Ferguson, a new American citizen preparing to vote in his first US election asks, "Are we so lost we have to be sold our own democratic right?"
Sep 12, 2008 7:40 AM
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
George Carlin "If you vote, you picked these morons. So you don't have the right to complain about them."
By: DonGucciwearin
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
George Carlin, brilliant as he often was, was a moron when he said that, and I refuse to believe that he actually believed that. But if he was sincere and not just being provocative, then... "fuck you Carlin."
I applaud Ferguson's passion here but he closes with a false statement. There are more than "two patriotic candidates". Many more
According to a page on wikipedia the following are all registered options for the 2008 presidential election.
Ralph Nader - independent
Alan Keyes- independent
Kelcey Wilson - independent
Cynthia McKinney - Green Party
Charles Jay - Boston Tea Party
Gene Amondson - Prohibition Party
Gloria La Riva - Party for Socialism and Liberation
Frank McEnulty - New American Independent Party
Gene Amondson - Prohibition Party
Chuck Baldwin - Constitution Party
Ted Weill - Reform Party
Brian Moore - Socialist Party USA
Roger Calero - Socialist Workers Party
Bob Barr - Libertarian Party
The question of whether any of these candidates have a realistic hope of moving into the oval office is irrelevant. A vote for any of these candidates is a chance to register a vote for change, choice, and dissent.
And even if you can't place yourself somewhere between the Libertarian and the Prohibitionist,
even if you can't get past the idea of strategic voting and to do as your heart tells you to (Green Party... you know you want to)
even if you are so finicky and precious that nobody in the above list is able to spark your fire... then there is always the option of spoiling your ballot. Throw your wooden shoe into the machine. Eat the paperwork.
But if you don't show up, if you choose the Carlin option to not participate and to be a cynical nihilist, then you are not just a moron. You're a slug.
I applaud Ferguson's passion here but he closes with a false statement. There are more than "two patriotic candidates". Many more
According to a page on wikipedia the following are all registered options for the 2008 presidential election.
Ralph Nader - independent
Alan Keyes- independent
Kelcey Wilson - independent
Cynthia McKinney - Green Party
Charles Jay - Boston Tea Party
Gene Amondson - Prohibition Party
Gloria La Riva - Party for Socialism and Liberation
Frank McEnulty - New American Independent Party
Gene Amondson - Prohibition Party
Chuck Baldwin - Constitution Party
Ted Weill - Reform Party
Brian Moore - Socialist Party USA
Roger Calero - Socialist Workers Party
Bob Barr - Libertarian Party
The question of whether any of these candidates have a realistic hope of moving into the oval office is irrelevant. A vote for any of these candidates is a chance to register a vote for change, choice, and dissent.
And even if you can't place yourself somewhere between the Libertarian and the Prohibitionist,
even if you can't get past the idea of strategic voting and to do as your heart tells you to (Green Party... you know you want to)
even if you are so finicky and precious that nobody in the above list is able to spark your fire... then there is always the option of spoiling your ballot. Throw your wooden shoe into the machine. Eat the paperwork.
But if you don't show up, if you choose the Carlin option to not participate and to be a cynical nihilist, then you are not just a moron. You're a slug.
By: spirot
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
"fuck you Carlin."
[EViLMinD's eye begins to twitch as he reaches for the nearest blunt object]
Oh... really...
I think you missed one all important party there, fella. It's the one I'm forming... as of right now: THE KICKING YOUR CLUELESS SELF-RIGHTEOUS ASS PARTY
Even though Carlin probably didn't vote, he was still justified in his what he said during his stand-up comedy. Just because you CAN vote, doesn't mean you HAVE to. Even the 'no votes' count as votes. This is one of the reasons why they call it a free fucking country. Dumbass
(psst. if anyone wants 'ta come to the party's convention, don't worry -- there will be girls and lots of beer provided)
[EViLMinD's eye begins to twitch as he reaches for the nearest blunt object]
Oh... really...
I think you missed one all important party there, fella. It's the one I'm forming... as of right now: THE KICKING YOUR CLUELESS SELF-RIGHTEOUS ASS PARTY
Even though Carlin probably didn't vote, he was still justified in his what he said during his stand-up comedy. Just because you CAN vote, doesn't mean you HAVE to. Even the 'no votes' count as votes. This is one of the reasons why they call it a free fucking country. Dumbass
(psst. if anyone wants 'ta come to the party's convention, don't worry -- there will be girls and lots of beer provided)
By: EViLMinD
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
First of all, I'm with spirot on almost all points, but I have to say, Carlin was first of all correct, and second of all, did he advocate choosing not to vote? Did I miss that? I'm guessing that he was very much pro-vote and I don't think this statement contradicts that. He's advocating exactly what spirot says: Do something useful with your vote and if you choose to waste it on the same morons, don't complain about them - do something about it.
As Jesus said, "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" (smart man...skeptical, progressive, suspicious of the church and the government - that's right, he was a liberal!! Don't tell anyone...)
As Jesus said, "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" (smart man...skeptical, progressive, suspicious of the church and the government - that's right, he was a liberal!! Don't tell anyone...)
By: ice-9
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
As George Carlin said, "I don't vote. Two reasons. First of all it's meaningless; this country was bought and sold a long time ago. The shit they shovel around every 4 years *pfff* doesn't mean a fucking thing. Secondly, I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around – they say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain', but where's the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with."
- George Carlin.
That sure sounds to me like advocacy for not voting. In this quote he reserves the right to criticize only for those who don't participate. He lionizes the apathetic as if not caring is a virtue.
Just because he's George Carlin doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of being full of shit sometimes and in this case he was full of shit.
No, you don't have to vote. However, if you choose the Carlin Option (not to vote) then you choose not to take any responsibility.
If you take a public forum and advocate for people to not exercise their democratic franchise, then you're delivering an irresponsible message, and I don't care if you're a preacher, a stand-up comedian, a broadcaster, a parent,... whatever... that's bullshit.
Democracy demands excellence and diligence, not apathy and abdication.
And no matter what kind of doublespeak you try to employ, the 'no votes' DON'T count. They have an effect, but they don't count. The effect they have rewards the corrupt.
Vote Green. I dare you.
- George Carlin.
That sure sounds to me like advocacy for not voting. In this quote he reserves the right to criticize only for those who don't participate. He lionizes the apathetic as if not caring is a virtue.
Just because he's George Carlin doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of being full of shit sometimes and in this case he was full of shit.
No, you don't have to vote. However, if you choose the Carlin Option (not to vote) then you choose not to take any responsibility.
If you take a public forum and advocate for people to not exercise their democratic franchise, then you're delivering an irresponsible message, and I don't care if you're a preacher, a stand-up comedian, a broadcaster, a parent,... whatever... that's bullshit.
Democracy demands excellence and diligence, not apathy and abdication.
And no matter what kind of doublespeak you try to employ, the 'no votes' DON'T count. They have an effect, but they don't count. The effect they have rewards the corrupt.
Vote Green. I dare you.
By: spirot
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
To simplify that excellent post, spirot: If you don't vote, you have no grounds to complain about who was voted in. If they aren't who you would've chosen, then maybe you should have fucking voted, huh?
Not voting and then bitching about the politicians is the modern day washing of the hands by Pontious Pilate. "I didn't take part, so I'm not responsible."
Not voting and then bitching about the politicians is the modern day washing of the hands by Pontious Pilate. "I didn't take part, so I'm not responsible."
By: Faffy
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
If you vote AT ALL, you are responsible for perpetuating a broken system! This really irks me: this argument is constantly made by people that don't know enough about the American election system.
In any system there are anomalies; there will be votes that are miscounted, but in an effective system this number will be small. Every election cycle in the US there are enumerable instances of blatant election system failure. Regardless of the source of these failures (human, machine, CHAD), and apparently regardless of the size of the flaw, it is RARELY addressed or fixed.
This lack of regard for massive failures in such an important system completely negates the importance of any one person's vote, let alone many votes.
The probability that any vote that I cast will be uncounted, or even worse, counted for the person I did not vote for, is far too great for me to consider putting forth the effort.
If you vote without addressing the massive problems in the system, you support the corrupt people that have arranged it so. You can vote green all you want, but if the people already in power make the rules for the system, you will always be disappointed.
In any system there are anomalies; there will be votes that are miscounted, but in an effective system this number will be small. Every election cycle in the US there are enumerable instances of blatant election system failure. Regardless of the source of these failures (human, machine, CHAD), and apparently regardless of the size of the flaw, it is RARELY addressed or fixed.
This lack of regard for massive failures in such an important system completely negates the importance of any one person's vote, let alone many votes.
The probability that any vote that I cast will be uncounted, or even worse, counted for the person I did not vote for, is far too great for me to consider putting forth the effort.
If you vote without addressing the massive problems in the system, you support the corrupt people that have arranged it so. You can vote green all you want, but if the people already in power make the rules for the system, you will always be disappointed.
By: luclonde
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
In Canada, we have more than two major parties to vote for.
I don't like any of them. So, this fall election, I'll be voting strategically (again) to help keep the Conservative out. (they're total pillow bitters)
Sure, I could just say to hell with the facade and not bother. However, I like to vote.
Now, to ask you a question... or two...
WHO the fuck do you think you are insulting the great man of comedy? He hasn't even been dead a year! Show some bloody respect you smug little prick.
Do you actually think that what George Carlin said during his act should be taken so seriously? Are you fucking kidding me? The same performer who said - "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately" ?
Even if Carlin said what he said from a stage, it's irrelevant. Even if he was filmed while saying it, it's still irrelevant. And it's irrelevant whether he, himself, voted or bloody well did not.
What IS relevant is that he was a joke teller who followed the artistic philosophy of Lenny Bruce by mixing elements of truth in with his material; so that, people could escape their reality and into another. An altered reality -- a Carlin reality. A dark world where the Devil's little proponent gets to come out and play. Some sort of mental jungle gym that we all secretly like to indulge ourselves in, from time to time.
Personally. I don't give a tinker's cuss what is said by a comic. If it can make me laugh - and I can connect to it on some level of truth - it's alright. Why not? There's no harm. I'm smart enough to make my own opinions and come to my own judgments; after the comic leaves the stage and I have to go back to reality.
Only stupid people will thoughtlessly repeat what they've heard (Carlin passionately hated this about society), while others will simply reflect and then move on.
Admittedly, I applauded when Carlin said he didn't vote. Yet I also disagreed with him. That's because I'm smart enough to draw my own fucking concussions -- I don't need a funny man to dictate my beliefs to me. (Though, I suspect Carlin wanted me to do just that)
My tip: Save your resentment for the sheeple, and leave the irony to the jesters.
I don't like any of them. So, this fall election, I'll be voting strategically (again) to help keep the Conservative out. (they're total pillow bitters)
Sure, I could just say to hell with the facade and not bother. However, I like to vote.
Now, to ask you a question... or two...
WHO the fuck do you think you are insulting the great man of comedy? He hasn't even been dead a year! Show some bloody respect you smug little prick.
Do you actually think that what George Carlin said during his act should be taken so seriously? Are you fucking kidding me? The same performer who said - "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately" ?
Even if Carlin said what he said from a stage, it's irrelevant. Even if he was filmed while saying it, it's still irrelevant. And it's irrelevant whether he, himself, voted or bloody well did not.
What IS relevant is that he was a joke teller who followed the artistic philosophy of Lenny Bruce by mixing elements of truth in with his material; so that, people could escape their reality and into another. An altered reality -- a Carlin reality. A dark world where the Devil's little proponent gets to come out and play. Some sort of mental jungle gym that we all secretly like to indulge ourselves in, from time to time.
Personally. I don't give a tinker's cuss what is said by a comic. If it can make me laugh - and I can connect to it on some level of truth - it's alright. Why not? There's no harm. I'm smart enough to make my own opinions and come to my own judgments; after the comic leaves the stage and I have to go back to reality.
Only stupid people will thoughtlessly repeat what they've heard (Carlin passionately hated this about society), while others will simply reflect and then move on.
Admittedly, I applauded when Carlin said he didn't vote. Yet I also disagreed with him. That's because I'm smart enough to draw my own fucking concussions -- I don't need a funny man to dictate my beliefs to me. (Though, I suspect Carlin wanted me to do just that)
My tip: Save your resentment for the sheeple, and leave the irony to the jesters.
By: EViLMinD
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
EM, just two posts ago you were saying Carlin was dead on. Now you're saying not to take him too seriously. I think you need to stop being such a reactionary fanboy. It's never healthy, no matter the subject of worship.
Don't make me go find some anime links to submit and have you burst a blood vessel.
Don't make me go find some anime links to submit and have you burst a blood vessel.
By: Faffy
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
No, please don't. That effeminate shit sucks. We don't want to lame the place up.
As for me stating that Carlin is correct, and then saying he is comedian and should not be taken too seriously...
Yes; correct. Voters do not have to vote if they don't want to, but they should not let Carlin's words be they're deciding factor. Seems pretty fucking obvious to me. Think it's called a paradox... but I'm not too sure. Must have slept through that section of English class.
Oh... and I'll jolly well decide what I want to get pissed off about - regardless of the goddamn health risks. Fuck health. Seems everything fun is bad for me: drugs, alcohol, driving fast, eating fatty food, lipping off authority, not sleeping, caffeine, sugar, salt and getting furious at snotty twerps.
I'll do what I like to do for as long as please. When I die, you can do burnouts on my grave with your wheelchair. See if I care.
As for me stating that Carlin is correct, and then saying he is comedian and should not be taken too seriously...
Yes; correct. Voters do not have to vote if they don't want to, but they should not let Carlin's words be they're deciding factor. Seems pretty fucking obvious to me. Think it's called a paradox... but I'm not too sure. Must have slept through that section of English class.
Oh... and I'll jolly well decide what I want to get pissed off about - regardless of the goddamn health risks. Fuck health. Seems everything fun is bad for me: drugs, alcohol, driving fast, eating fatty food, lipping off authority, not sleeping, caffeine, sugar, salt and getting furious at snotty twerps.
I'll do what I like to do for as long as please. When I die, you can do burnouts on my grave with your wheelchair. See if I care.
By: EViLMinD
Re: Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
I'm glad to see that there is another person here that can resist the Personality Cult of Carlin.
Not saying I never laughed at the guys jokes, but it's annoying how so many people try to be like Carlin and go with the, "Carlin said it so agree with it!" line of thinking.
Yes, voting is important. No other way around it. I do wish more people would vote third party though. In 2004 I voted third party because I just couldn't bring myself to support Kerry. The man was a tool.
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried." This line is really true. Democracy really sucks, especially when the people you want to win lose. It's the best we've got though, and we've all got to work together to make it better.
Not saying I never laughed at the guys jokes, but it's annoying how so many people try to be like Carlin and go with the, "Carlin said it so agree with it!" line of thinking.
Yes, voting is important. No other way around it. I do wish more people would vote third party though. In 2004 I voted third party because I just couldn't bring myself to support Kerry. The man was a tool.
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried." This line is really true. Democracy really sucks, especially when the people you want to win lose. It's the best we've got though, and we've all got to work together to make it better.
By: McCorvic
Re: Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
I would love to vote. However, my so-called "right" to vote was taken away when I received a felony for growing marijuana. For life. So if someone shitty gets elected I have absolutely no fault what so ever! Heh heh.
By: Crabjuice
Re: Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
US drug laws are so fucking dumb. Sorry to hear you got screwed over, man.
BTW, any chance you could hook me up with an 8th? My current dealer is an unreliable flake. I've been without for nearly two weeks now... and I'm getting quite edgy. I'm starting to eye the oregano in the our kitchen.
:(
BTW, any chance you could hook me up with an 8th? My current dealer is an unreliable flake. I've been without for nearly two weeks now... and I'm getting quite edgy. I'm starting to eye the oregano in the our kitchen.
:(
By: EViLMinD
Re: Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
Mmmm. Oregano: the other white meat.
By: luclonde
Re: Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
Wait, you're in Canada, right? Get some absynthe. It's not the same, sure, but I sure beats burnt oregano.
By: luclonde
Re: Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
I brought some absinthe back from France a few months ago. Great stuff. Compliments a magic mushroom high perfectly.
By: EViLMinD
Re: Craig Ferguson: If You Don't Vote, You're a Moron
Try catnip. Your fiancée won't sleep for a month, I tell ya.
By: White_Wolf
